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mouse vs stick unfair


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Eon264 #41 Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:33 PM

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View PostElios0, on 16 April 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

you can win with a mouse
you just have to work at it

that said there are number of things with the mouse that really need to be changed/fixed

biggest is that you cant turn off the roll/yaw mixing which irritates me to no end at times
the other is that if move the mouse all the way to 3 or 9 and leave it there it will want to move back to 12
there needs to be way to turn off these behaviours so that the mouse is an analog to using a joystick

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ireconi #42 Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

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As I have stated many times. There is no advantage. There are players including me who do just fine with the KB and Mouse.

The only advantage a joystick gives is if a person has never used a Mouse and KB for gaming before they get the option of using a Joystick.

ipaps #43 Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:27 PM

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I tried the WoT control, I think it's rather simple if you don't want to bother with tilt, yaw and turn, they're automatically determined by the position of cursor on the screen. However, since the input is 2 dimensional, x and y, i think some maneuvers will become undoable.

For example: Take a vertical dive, turn 180 degree during the dive then pull from the dive and fly into a opposite direction at a lower altitude. I found it very hard to do smoothly. For 0.4.1 control, a simple dive vertically then pull back flying level in the same direction at a lower altitude proves difficult. I tried adding hotkeys help with tilt, yaw and turn, but their inputs interfere with mouse input, making it unpredictable.

There's another problem with 0.4.1: staying on a stationary target on the ground is hard. I think it requires you to return the cursor to origin (center of screen) at the exact time your plane's nose point at the target, otherwise it goes away right away. I think i'd just loop around the target instead.


***

Personally I really want a mouse that act like a joystick. It's more realistic and more fun to fly this way. also precise when aiming. When a sharp turn is needed, just hit the secondary hotkeys on the keyboard. (usually it's the tilt up that's needed)

Edited by ipaps, 26 April 2013 - 03:23 PM.


ipaps #44 Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:46 PM

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View Postipaps, on 26 April 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

There's another problem with 0.4.1: staying on a stationary target on the ground is hard. I think it requires you to return the cursor to origin (center of screen) at the exact time your plane's nose point at the target, otherwise it goes away right away. I think i'd just loop around the target instead.

On a second thought, why not make the origin bigger?

Stormstryder #45 Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

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I don't usually post on forums because I feel that I am just opening myself up for attack, but when I see people post that things are "unfair" in a game that I really enjoy, I tend to get nervous. Most of the time, the subject being described as unfair is just someones perspective of the game and not a true imbalance of the game mechanics.
  As far as the use of a joystick being unfair to mouse users, I have to disagree. I have seen many post here asking which system of control people use and it is a fairly even mix of control types. I have also checked out the stats of the players using the different control types and have noticed that there is no imbalance of kills to games played in respect to control type.
  I have switced to a joystick myself, and since then, my kills per game have dropped significantly. I had found that I could hold on target much easier with the WoT mouse than I could with the joystick, but it was more difficult to execute the same manuevers with the WoT mouse then it was the joystick. Also, I cannot use the 4.?? mouse controls at all, they are just way too squirrely for me and I usually end up in the side of a mountain when attempting to use it for control. So, as far as I can see, the different control types are a matter of preference, and neither system is unfair when compared to the others. It is a matter of how you set your system up and which system works best for you.
  Another thing that must be remembered is that this is a combat simulation. Fairness does not come into question in combat. In combat, everyone is looking for and edge that allows them to have the advantage over their oppenents. Are we next going to complain that it is unfair that one plane does things better then another? Will people start to complain that it is unfair that their Corsaire cannot beat a Zero in a turning battle?
  So what can give you the advantage over other players? Training, tactics and practice. This holds true for the type of controls you decide to use as well. You have to know what is possible to make your plane do with the contol system that you choose. then you practice and adapt your tactics to what is possible for you to do and what is not. That is what makes this game challenging. This game cannot be won. You are taking your chosen weapon into combat against others with their chosen weapon. Everyone is seeking an advantage.
  You said that you can contol your planes much better with the joystick then you can with the mouse. Then use the joystick... Many others "feel" differently. Does that make it unfair? No, it is just a matter of perspective and preference. Please folks, be careful when you state that soemthing is "unfair". Make sure to take a close look and determine if it is truly unfair of if it is just soemthing that you don't prefer or are not competent with.

DracoArgentum #46 Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:12 AM

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The WoT mouse is clearly worse than a stick. In part thats due to the horrible roll and camera control you get with it. In part its because point to move is hard to use in certain circumstances.

Its unfair in a sense. But WoT mouse is meant for people who are new to flight games. People at that level will actually be better off with WoT mouse even though its not as good in the hands of a great pilot.

Just please fix the thing where it rolls the wrong way for no reason.

Bogie_with_Stu #47 Posted 27 April 2013 - 02:22 AM

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Folks, a mouse is more fluid in its control by design. A laser digital input device is going to be more precise and fluid (and faster) than a analog potentiometer (which is what most joysticks use). I suck with a mouse, so I use a JS but I can easily tell that the plane responds better to the mouse than to a joystick regardless of how you compensate the axis. I have a suspicion that this could be fixed by the devs if they worked on the JS sub-routines a bit, but I'll leave it to them to answer.

Case in point: Focusing on a stationary target with the mouse can be done by an epileptic monkey, whereas keeping the cursor on a stationary target with a joystick can be a challenge.

Again, I'm not saying the mouse is better or worse, simply that the game interprets the mouse inputs differently than it does the joystick and, I maintain, it does it faster. If the joystick code cant be tweaked, perhaps the mouse code needs to be nerfed a bit.

Edited by zen1360, 28 April 2013 - 01:53 PM.


Crackedcanadian #48 Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:14 PM

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there is going to be some major control improvements in the next patch.


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Obochoman #49 Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:10 AM

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I just got a joystick after playing with the mouse for a week or so and have found that the mouse is much more simple than using a joystick but I do feel a greater control over the plane when using the joystick. However, for me it is much harder to line up a shot with a joystick than it is when using a mouse, but this could be because I'm new to the joystick. Bombing seems to be much easier with the joystick as you can just use the tail to line up a shot and the buttons to drop a bomb are much more comfortable than a keyboard. The joystick does suffer from a slight delay while the mouse does not.

Well there's my two cents

DracoArgentum #50 Posted 28 April 2013 - 11:29 AM

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I get delay with mouse, how are you guys not?

Crackedcanadian #51 Posted 28 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

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all of the controls have a random amount of input lag right now which they are trying to fix.  not to mention some joysticks cause a black screen in windowed mode which they are fixing also.


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ipaps #52 Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:06 AM

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The advantage of a joystick is that you don't need your eyes to control your plane, so you can focus on what the target is doing. With 0.4.1, controlling of the plane is like doing trigonometry.

Is it possible to make a mouse control set that's like a joystick? If you move the mouse up the plane starts to tilt up until you move it back, while left and right means turn. Just a thought.

Edited by ipaps, 29 April 2013 - 08:07 AM.


q123we #53 Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:04 AM

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I have noticed that the xbox controller for PC turns a lot tighter than the mouse does

BronzeBarbarian #54 Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

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I think the issue is control input. With a stick many people feel perfectly natural banking to the right then applying upward pitch to increase the rate of turn. I have seen some people using a mouse bank and leave it at that. You have to learn how to use all your control surfaces. As others have said some people are aces using mouse and keyboard. It's all about what you're comfortable with and can use without thinking about it. :)
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ZXRIST #55 Posted 07 May 2013 - 05:49 PM

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I just got into closed beta and have not played the game yet as I'm still installing, However I've played other flights games and using a game pad works far more than using a mouse.  Although this may be different playing Wowp, as I have yet to see for myself.

wreckerpro #56 Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:12 PM

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Atmskilled player vs skilled player in equal planes, the one NOT using the WOT mouse controls loses a turn fight. EVERYTIME.

Boom and zoom fights are now the only style that negates the computer assisted advantage. But still gives the accuracy advantage to the mouse user
So I would say that the mouse has and advantage overthe joystick users for now.

Edited by wreckerpro, 07 May 2013 - 06:13 PM.


Elios0 #57 Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:14 PM

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View PostCrackedcanadian, on 27 April 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

there is going to be some major control improvements in the next patch.

they keep saying that and it never happens

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stealth250 #58 Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:17 PM

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View PostElios0, on 08 May 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

they keep saying that and it never happens
well have you heard of "soon"?


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Elios0 #59 Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:25 AM

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Profanity removed
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View Poststealth250, on 08 May 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

well have you heard of "soon"?

yes but when you say NEXT PATCH you better **** well mean it
they didnt say soon they said NEXT PATCH 3 **** PATCHES AGO

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stealth250 #60 Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

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View PostElios0, on 10 May 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

yes but when you say NEXT PATCH you better damn well mean it
they didnt say soon they said NEXT PATCH 3 ******* PATCHES AGO
language bro. this is for teens too you know


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