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(Tier VIII) J7W1


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Poll: J7W1 Plane Balance (26 members have cast votes)

How balanced do you think this plane is overall?

  1. Very overpowered (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Somewhat overpowered (2 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  3. Reasonably balanced (9 votes [34.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.62%

  4. Somewhat underpowered (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  5. Very underpowered (11 votes [42.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.31%

How fun is this plane to fly?

  1. One of my favorites! (9 votes [34.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.62%

  2. I really like it (4 votes [15.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.38%

  3. It’s fun (7 votes [26.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.92%

  4. Not my favorite (3 votes [11.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.54%

  5. I hate it! (3 votes [11.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.54%

How much of a factor does this plane contribute to a team’s victory? (Assume all planes are of the same tier in the match)

  1. Overwhelming contribution (1 vote [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

  2. Strong contribution (6 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  3. Reasonable contribution (5 votes [19.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.23%

  4. Low contribution (13 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  5. Non-factor (1 vote [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

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Raizei #1 Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

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Hello Pilots!
We want to hear your feedback! In addition to answering the poll above, we would like your feedback on the categories below:
Battles played - How many games have you flown in this plane?
Plane balance - please explain why you think this plane is overpowered, underpowered, or balanced. Give specific reasoning like firepower, turn rates, climb speed, etc., that contribute to the planes balance.
Historical accuracy - please note any specific characteristics that make this plane unique historically and what things may be missing from that would better reflect the capabilities of the plane.
Power curve - How does the plane feel stock vs. fully upgraded?
Adjustment recommendations - Explain any recommendations you have to balance this plane and why.
Additional notes - Anything else you have to say about this plane that doesn’t fit in another section above. Include any tactics or uses that may have been overlooked by other players.
Cheers!
~Raizei

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Xx_Lurid_xX #2 Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:41 PM

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This plane is a deal breaker. By that I mean after the grind ive put up with and the hope ive had with going to the next tier, Has been a letdown from my expectations repeatedly.My Stats are 1693 battles, 48% victory, 52% loss. I have over  100 battles in previous tier aircraft to tier 4      12 in the j7w1I have tried to play everything and have been all over the place with aircraft but I chose the Japanese tree to grind out. I had a expectation that at tier8 it would turn around and become a more durable aircraft. The hit points actually go down from tier7 to 8 in the Japanese tree. Why would you do that unless there was some overpowering stat to replace it. Losing hit points and going up a tier?This aircraft needs more hitpoints and the overheating of the engine needs to be slowedThis aircraft was in its infancy when ordered mass produced because of the war. The thing that's being overlooked is aircraft were further developed even while in production.I am sure this aircraft would have been continued to be modified after the first 100. Also lets not forget the many stories of modifications done by mechanics on the flightline for certain missions. This aircraft had a engine heating problem while on the ground only because the cooling lines were ran along the inside of the skin, so when in the air at altitude this aircraft screamed I think and stayed cool.I believe this aircraft would have definitely been further modified whether it be factory or flight line because it just performs to poorly. I would have been riveting sheetmetal on my leading edge after the first flight with this if I lived. I think I would take damage flying through a rainstorm as it is now.More Hitpoints, Slower Engine heating, faster engine cooling, those are my suggestions for this aircraft

Edited by Luridgaze, 12 August 2013 - 11:46 PM.


_Down_Range #3 Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:19 AM

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I am going to have to agree with Luridgaze on this one. I flew this plane quite a bit in closed beta and I just picked it up again in open beta and I see the plane has not improved any. inspite of its "on paper" manueverability this plane does not act in the manner of Japanese manufacturing style and it does not have a descent roll rate for this tier aircraft. The engines over heat way too fast as well as the guns. I understand the guns being poor but not everything else. Please improve this aircraft.
Improve roll rate and boost needs to be 20 seconds min.
***also the information I have found on the Type 5© 30mm cannon has a rate of fire of 500 RPM  and muzzle velocity of 760m per second.
in game its shown as having 700 mps.

Edited by Olde_Crow, 23 August 2013 - 04:27 AM.


SkyWolf__WM #4 Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:41 AM

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" Historically Insignificant".
"Improvised" Flight Model.

Had Aircraft in CB, won't bother with the Japanese Tree after the A7M.... which was also " Historically Insignificant" but elites my A6M5.
***************Fail to Suck****************

I shall use my aircraft and my skill to slightly inconvenience mine enemies.


_Down_Range #5 Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:09 AM

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I was hoping for an improvement to this plane in the update.. I guess not..
Plane needs an increase in the boost, and roll rate and/or reduce the energy bleed off in a turn/climb.
The guns and high energy loss make it a poor plane in combat so give it a boost elsewhere to make up for that.
16 battles in OB
80+ in CB
Needs better boost... 20 seconds at least
Needs less energy loss
The guns over heat WAY too fast
Engine under powered even at full upgrade
Needs better Maueverability
This plane needs something to allow it to better compete since the Japanes planes don't take hits very well.

Edited by Olde_Crow, 23 November 2013 - 06:13 AM.


_Down_Range #6 Posted 23 August 2013 - 05:28 AM

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The only canard (tail first) combat fighter seriously considered for mass production
during World War II, the Kyushu J7W1 Shinden (Magnificent Lighting) remains one of
the most futuristic-looking and menacing airplanes ever to fly, past or present. It's
shark-like profile oozed violence and if put in production could have wrought plenty of it
upon the hoards of Boeing B-29 Superfortresses which were incinerating dozens of
Japanese cities with impunity late in the war.
Development of the J7W1 came through a series of very careful aerodynamic studies
with three MXY6 gliders to prove the stability of canard wing flight. With a engineering
team lead by Imperial Japanese Navy Captain Masaoki Tsuruno, the all-metal J7W1
was designed around the 2,130 horsepower Mitsubishi [Ha-43] 12 (MK9D)
eighteen-cylinder air-cooled radial engine driving a six-blade metal pusher propeller. It
was one of the most powerful engines available and generated a great deal of torque
which strongly manifested itself on the airplane's first flight on August 3, 1945.
Only two J7W1s were produced during the spring of 1945 at the Kyushu Hikoki K.K.
Zasshonokuma plant. Quantity production in this plant and the Handa plant of Nakajima
Hikoki K.K. had been undertaken, but no production aircraft had been completed by
war's end. Only one of the two J7W1 prototypes had flown before the Japanese
surrender and then for just 45 minutes. One prototype survived the war and as of July 21,
1998 is stored in Building 7 of the U.S. National Air And Space Museum Garber Facility
in Silver Springs, Maryland.
The J7W1 had a wing span of 36.45 feet (11.11 meters) was 31.69 feet (9.66 meters) in
length and 12.86 feet (3.92 meters) high. Maximum weight was 11,526 pounds (5,228
kilograms) while maximum speed was estimated to be 466 miles per hour (mph, 750
kilometers per hour, km/h). Operational ceiling was 39,370 feet (12,000 meters) while
maximum range was 528 miles (850 kilometers). Armament consisted of four Type 5 30
millimeter cannons with 265 pounds (120 kilograms) of bombs, no weapons were
believed to have been installed on the J7W1 prototypes.
_________________________________________________________________
The current max air speed with a fully upgraded engine for WoWP is 698... in this article the air speed is stated to have been around 750 kph.
Also I have found only one article that mentions the Type 17 30mm cannon. I have been unable to locate ANY information about this gun. Could someone provide source material on its performance?

Edited by Olde_Crow, 23 August 2013 - 05:45 AM.


_Down_Range #7 Posted 24 August 2013 - 12:48 AM

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Type 99-2 (20mm)
The Type 99-2 was a heavier weapon with a stronger recoil, and was not put in use by the IJN before 1942. It was used exclusively in fixed installations, i.e., either in fighters or in power-operated turrets. The Type 99-2 was carried by later models of the A6M, starting with the A6M3 model 22a,[3] and on later Navy fighters such as the Kawanishi N1K-J.
The Model 4 of this weapon adopted the same belt-feed mechanism as the Type 99-1 Model 4. The Type 99-2 Model 5 resulted from attempts to increase the rate of fire. By modifications that included the addition of strong buffer springs, the rate of fire was raised to between 670 and 750 rpm. But the Model 5 was formally adopted only in May 1945 and may not have seen combat.[3][4]
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I would recommend that since this was a late war produced aircraft, it would seem proper that if you wanted to use the type 99 series 20mm cannon, the proper gun would be the late model type 99-2 model 5 gun with a raised RPM of 670 to 750 RPM.
_______________________________________________________________________________________
Projectile weight  
4.5 ounces or 128 grams
Velocity  1970 feet per second or 600 meters per second (Model 1)
2490 feet per second or 759 meters per second (Model 2)
Range  2625 to 3280 feet
800 to 1000 meters
Gun weight
55 lbs or 25 kg (Model 1)
80 lbs or 36 kg (Model 2)
Rate of fire
520 rounds per minute (Model 1)
490 rounds per minute (Model 2 Mark 3)
620 rounds per minute (Model 2 Mark 5)
Gun power
96 (Model 1)
120 (Model 2)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Type  Muzzle velocity  Rate of fire  Range  carrying ammunition  waight
1'Gou'flexible cannon  600m/s  520e/m  730m  Magazine,45ammunition  23.0kg
1'Gou' model 1 "Kai"1  Magazine,60  -
1'Gou' model 2  Magazine,100  -
1'Gou' model 3  Magazine,60  -
1'Gou' model 4  belt, 125ammunition  -
2'Gou' model 3  750m/s  490e/m  914m  Magazine,100ammunition  33.5kg
2'Gou' model 4  500e/m  belt, 125ammunition  29.0kg
2'Gou' model 5  750e/m  belt, 150ammunition  -
Installed  Navy fighters
Note  1'Gou':Short Barrel, 2'Gou': Long Barrel,
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia..../Type_99_cannon
http://pwencycl.kgbu...Type_99_gun.htm
http://www.quarry.ni...co.uk/apib.html
http://www.gunsight....ta/jn-gun-e.htm
http://www.dragonsof...craft-jnavy.htm

Edited by Olde_Crow, 24 August 2013 - 01:21 AM.


AikiYun #8 Posted 25 August 2013 - 06:17 AM

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The gun is slow, but very high burst damaged.  Maneuverability is something I enjoyed especially in high tier matches.  The biggest let down is the paper thin armor that makes the plane unable to contribute to the battle before being shot down.

Namarastrai #9 Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:16 AM

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1. Too slow by comparison in it's tier and class (also historically as the first test flight was significantly faster than this is fully upgrades)  2. Very fast engine over heat, can barely climb out of AA range at start of match (historically it was designed as a high altitude bomber interceptor, it would have to be a superb climber)  3. I would call it a glass cannon but between the rapid gun overheating and the lack of accuracy with the guns over any reasonable range, just make it a flying chunk of glass (shouldn't a bomber interceptor be a tad more resilient to tail gunner fire? This thing is fragile a decently trained gunner shreds and knocks out the rear mounted engine in seconds)  Game balancing over all doesn't seem to be balanced. It just seems like the best performing planes get serious nerfs, while planes at the mid line performance-wise get a mild boost. Little tweaks to every plane from top to bottom are needed for real balance. You can't just chop the legs out from under a plane without boosting it somewhere else. For example the F4F, it's turn was decreased to the point that it's just a slower P-40 that can carry bombs and bigger rockets. Why even take the F4F unless you just want the F4U? Oh wait, that plane under performs now too. So then how about the F2G? Eh, it's a middle of the road nothing special plane that can be loaded to all hell with rockets and bombs if you can't dogfight well. So the only reason to play that line anymore is to get the Tier 8 and 9 because the tier 10 blows. If you breakdown these lines that have seen the most change you find them all to have just been handicapped. In closing as you ask about historical reference as well, there was never a single version of the Mustang that could out turn, out gun, or out climb a corsair... Just saying.

Heh #10 Posted 08 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

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View PostNamarastrai, on 08 September 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

1. Too slow by comparison in it's tier and class (also historically as the first test flight was significantly faster than this is fully upgrades)  2. Very fast engine over heat, can barely climb out of AA range at start of match (historically it was designed as a high altitude bomber interceptor, it would have to be a superb climber)  3. I would call it a glass cannon but between the rapid gun overheating and the lack of accuracy with the guns over any reasonable range, just make it a flying chunk of glass (shouldn't a bomber interceptor be a tad more resilient to tail gunner fire? This thing is fragile a decently trained gunner shreds and knocks out the rear mounted engine in seconds)  Game balancing over all doesn't seem to be balanced. It just seems like the best performing planes get serious nerfs, while planes at the mid line performance-wise get a mild boost. Little tweaks to every plane from top to bottom are needed for real balance. You can't just chop the legs out from under a plane without boosting it somewhere else. For example the F4F, it's turn was decreased to the point that it's just a slower P-40 that can carry bombs and bigger rockets. Why even take the F4F unless you just want the F4U? Oh wait, that plane under performs now too. So then how about the F2G? Eh, it's a middle of the road nothing special plane that can be loaded to all hell with rockets and bombs if you can't dogfight well. So the only reason to play that line anymore is to get the Tier 8 and 9 because the tier 10 blows. If you breakdown these lines that have seen the most change you find them all to have just been handicapped. In closing as you ask about historical reference as well, there was never a single version of the Mustang that could out turn, out gun, or out climb a corsair... Just saying.

You know, the J7W1 had 2.8k ft/min climb rate IRL. Of course, it was due to Japan's abysmal fuel quality, but it wasn't a sustained climber IRL. WG's actually being nice there, just like they're nice with us when it comes to skorcas (Bf 110s did NOT climb very well either).
Heh - aeromarine biologist

View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

Namarastrai #11 Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:38 PM

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View PostHeh, on 08 September 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

You know, the J7W1 had 2.8k ft/min climb rate IRL. Of course, it was due to Japan's abysmal fuel quality, but it wasn't a sustained climber IRL. WG's actually being nice there, just like they're nice with us when it comes to skorcas (Bf 110s did NOT climb very well either).

RL Service Ceiling: 39,360 ft, In Game: 1800ft
Flat Max Speed: 750 km/h, In game: Less than 700 km/h with boost

When referring to climb I wasn't indicating it climbed to slow. I was referring to the fact that it has the fastest engine overheat of any plane near it's tier.

Bopgun #12 Posted 09 October 2013 - 03:19 PM

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To be fair I've only flown this once but that's how disappointed I am. The change from tier 7 to 8 should be a big thing a bit like the 262 is. I would rather be in my a7m than this. The A7M is I think a great plane in its tier. This plane seems to not want to loop at all. On paper it looks great but the reality is seemingly different. Such a shame. Still I shall try again.
Ok. I've flown this thing some more and its a joke. It cant climb, its cant loop, it cant boost and it loses energy at a bizarre rate. Fail

Edited by Bopgun, 12 October 2013 - 05:24 PM.


Sigifrid #13 Posted 16 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

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View PostBopgun, on 09 October 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

To be fair I've only flown this once but that's how disappointed I am. The change from tier 7 to 8 should be a big thing a bit like the 262 is. I would rather be in my a7m than this. The A7M is I think a great plane in its tier. This plane seems to not want to loop at all. On paper it looks great but the reality is seemingly different. Such a shame. Still I shall try again.
Ok. I've flown this thing some more and its a joke. It cant climb, its cant loop, it cant boost and it loses energy at a bizarre rate. Fail
          Part of the problem is that you are playing it like an energy fighter/vertical fighter, and this plane just isn't.  IRL it was supposed to be, but the version in the game is very much a horizontal turn fighter.  You cannot expect the vertical fighter doctrine to work with this one.
            As a turn fighter, the plane can make very sharp turns (provided you stay within the altitude limits).  Nothing should be able to outmanuver you on the horizontal plane.  At the same time, the plane loses speed rapidly in the turn, which requires the use of the booster to keep the speed in the light green area.  Failure to stay in this range makes it very hard to manuver.  This is a bit of a problem with the short booster duration; however, the acceleration from 300 to 400 KPH is very fast, thus allowing you to only need a second or two of the boost before you can stop using it again, allowing it to cool a little before using again.  The boost is not that important for climbing because on most tier VIII maps the plane already starts at the upper edge of the optimal altitude zone.  Trying to fly above this area hurts the plane more than it helps.
    The guns this plane uses are devastating, provided you get a solid bead on the enemy and manage to keep hitting.  The 30mm cannons are brutally effective, and can take even an IL-40 down to 150-200 health in about 3-4 seconds if used correctly.  The fast overheat, however, requires trigger discipline, and thus they should be fired only in bursts.  The accuracy is a bit low compared to other autocannons, but still are effective if you exercise trigger discipline.
   *continued: What I currently feel needs the most fixing for this plane is the low altitude ceiling.  A tier 8 fighter plane that cannot climb to 2 km without losing manuverability makes it extremely hard to fight planes that excel at vertical manuvers or Boom and Zoom mechanics (ie 262, p-51H).  The initial engagements at this tier mostly occur at 2 km as a minimum altitude, meaning the j7 cannot assist the team if the fight stays up there.  If the fight is mostly heavy fighters, that engagement altitude is usually upwards of 3 km.  Thus, the j7 pilot is relegated to anti-GAA as the only task he can achieve until one of the enemies either drops altitude while dogfighting, or turns to engage the j7.  Increasing the altitude a bit to at least allow the j7 to climb high enough to fire some shots into the enemy would help with the current balance.
            In a 1v1 engagement (assuming equal pilot skill, and completely undamaged planes/modules), it is possible to fight against a BnZ heavy. It is just a very difficult proposition, and if the heavy has the supremacy timer ticking the J7 will only win if the heavy makes an error in addition to the mistake of choosing to engage when he does not need to.  The main advantage the J7 has here is that the higher altitude plane will have to drop down to a lower altitude to engage, thus giving up some manuverability (even if retaining energy properly).  If the J7 dodges the first attack, it usually can set up for a counterattack as the enemy disengages to recover energy, although the window for this is very small.  This method requires a great deal of patience on the part of the J7 if it plans to succeed.

Edited by Sigifrid, 16 October 2013 - 08:11 PM.

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Arri_Shi #14 Posted 18 October 2013 - 05:33 AM

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I can agree with you on the flight ceiling considering it was made to be a high altitude interceptor, but I would like it to have a little less speed bleed in the turns so that it doesn't drop into the bottom of the dark green during a turn fight (even with boost it is difficult to maintain speed), as well as giving it a larger window to dodge and attack BnZers; it has a very difficult time regaining energy and burns through it faster than any plane in the IJN line.

Ranger_1 #15 Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:13 PM

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After the latest patch the plane is a bit better, but still loses energy too rapidly even in a turn fight.
I've had better luck disengaging the "automatic flaps" as this is where most of the energy bleed occurs.  If you do this and only tap the flaps when absolutely necessary it retains energy far, far better.
Perhaps that is a large part of the problem, that being it's flaps are having too big an impact on it's speed and energy level compared to all other aircraft.

Edited by Ranger_1, 25 October 2013 - 09:14 PM.


HouseFoxx #16 Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:46 PM

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Battles played -

130

Plane balance -

Overall, I would say that for the average player not too experienced at flying this plane, it's a little underpowered.  Once you get the feel of it though, it becomes quite useful and balanced.

Historical accuracy -

Yes it is true that on the ground, this plane did have overheating issues, but that effect is greatly nullified by it being in the air and going fast, something that just doesn't reflect the amount of boost time this plane has currently.

Power curve -

Stock this plane is a flying corpse.  Once you get your 2nd or 3rd guns and your 2nd or 3rd engine, this plane becomes rather well-balanced in the hands of a good pilot.

Adjustment recommendations -

For such a powerful engine and the fact that this plane is so light, it greatly deserves an increase in acceleration and top speed as mentioned by others before.  This plane would also be much better without the extreme limiting factor of the upper ceiling- above which your plane is completely useless; I would suggest raising the cap by about 2000 meters to make it effective in it's role as a light fighter against planes in it's own tier.

Additional notes -

If you want more information on this plane, please visit my guide: Successful Guide to the J7W1, it has a lot of useful information borne of many hours of practice and could help almosy anyone improve in this plane.



Carl_the_Cuttlefish #17 Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:07 AM

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If you guys want improved climb rate and more a return to average, hang on until the J7W3. But I love the J7W1. It's hard to play if you have tier X's in your game, but you can still avoid their boom and zooms and move on to slower tier VIII's. This plane with fully upgraded cannons just eats up anything in a tier lower than it. It's actually ridiculously overpowered when you get these games and know how to fly Japanese style. It's a really fun plane though.

 


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Aurabird #18 Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:26 AM

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I haven't flown this plane since beta and all I did with it was grind to tier 9. I didnt like the roll rate at all on it from memory and it felt ungodly slow and horrible when fighting anything above its green zone. Taking pot shots at people above me was all i could do, it felt like i was just exp for the other team to squabble over. However when an enemy flew in my zone, my guns made short work of them and my turn radius was awesome, but again, the roll rate frustrated me, it made it hard to dodge BnZ attacks.

kingka #19 Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:36 AM

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just got this plane, i feel like this has horrible roll..but one thing i wanted to ask you guys, does the aiming feel choppy at all? when i'm in a turn, the cursor/aiming mechanic seems to be choppy/ridged.

oldkye #20 Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:40 AM

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View Postkingka, on 14 January 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:

just got this plane, i feel like this has horrible roll..but one thing i wanted to ask you guys, does the aiming feel choppy at all? when i'm in a turn, the cursor/aiming mechanic seems to be choppy/ridged.

 

Yeah it's a spray and pray with 0.5 seconds of spray lol when you get the 30mm's that will kill things no problem but with the 0.5 second or so over heat and randomness is really really noticeably.






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