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(Tier IX) IL-20


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Poll: IL-20 Plane Balance (14 members have cast votes)

How balanced do you think this plane is overall?

  1. Very overpowered (1 vote [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  2. Somewhat overpowered (2 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  3. Reasonably balanced (6 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

  4. Somewhat underpowered (1 vote [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  5. Very underpowered (4 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

How fun is this plane to fly?

  1. One of my favorites! (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. I really like it (5 votes [35.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

  3. It’s fun (2 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  4. Not my favorite (6 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

  5. I hate it! (1 vote [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

How much of a factor does this plane contribute to a team’s victory? (Assume all planes are of the same tier in the match)

  1. Overwhelming contribution (1 vote [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  2. Strong contribution (3 votes [21.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.43%

  3. Reasonable contribution (5 votes [35.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

  4. Low contribution (5 votes [35.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

  5. Non-factor (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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Raizei #1 Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:07 PM

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Hello Pilots!
We want to hear your feedback! In addition to answering the poll above, we would like your feedback on the categories below:
Battles played - How many games have you flown in this plane?
Plane balance - please explain why you think this plane is overpowered, underpowered, or balanced. Give specific reasoning like firepower, turn rates, climb speed, etc., that contribute to the planes balance.
Historical accuracy - please note any specific characteristics that make this plane unique historically and what things may be missing from that would better reflect the capabilities of the plane.
Power curve - How does the plane feel stock vs. fully upgraded?
Adjustment recommendations - Explain any recommendations you have to balance this plane and why.
Additional notes - Anything else you have to say about this plane that doesn’t fit in another section above. Include any tactics or uses that may have been overlooked by other players.
Cheers!
~Raizei

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bearrick #2 Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:54 PM

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Battles played -  24 in OB at time of writing, over 100 in CB.

Plane balance - Overall, it's fairly balanced.  The speed change it saw in the OB patch has really helped the Il-20 improve its contribution.  The only downside now is its tendency to suicide with the 500kg bombs, but that's more a problem with the weapon than the plane.

Historical accuracy - like most of the line, it was a non-production prototype series, but this one actually showed promise.  

Power curve - stock is tolerable, upgraded is impressive.  Upgrading the engine gives the plane more capabilities and even just getting to the second set of guns feels like the knob is turned higher.  Even upgrading the tail gunner gives this plane more prowess.  And 57mm anti-tank cannons... yes please.

Adjustment recommendations - As stated above, the 500kg bombs, and to a small extent even the 250kg bombs, give this plane more than any other a tendency to kill itself.  This is because of the interrelated values of speed, delay timer, and blast radius.  If the Il-20 isn't travelling at max velocity at low altitude the 500kg will at least damge the plane and injure the crew.  The 250kg can catch it even if it's just sitting at the common cruise speed.  

It's because of this that I would suggest changing the delay timers for the bombs instead of changing the plane.  If you were to change the plane it'd change the balance of the individual vehicle, especially when using the 57mm guns.  The timers don't even need to change much. 1/4~1/2 a second for the 250 and 1/2~3/4 a second for the 500 should be plenty of change.

Additional notes - none

401shield.png 401st Bomb Group STICKER US ARMY AIR CORPS 615th Bomb Squadron.jpg 615th Bombardment Squadron


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bearrick #3 Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:16 PM

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Updating assessment since 0.5.1 brought changes to this aircraft.  
Edit: Changed my vote as well.
Power Curve - Stock is still fine.  Upgraded 23mm are still the same.  The spread changes have made the 57mm near useless for even the intended ground assault purpose of this plane.  The high powered shots mean nothing when the overheat index is as high as it is and the shots miss so often on small ground targets.  AA guns and convoys virtually require the use of ordinance if the 57mm are equipped because so many shots will miss.
Even with the upgraded airframe module, the increased durability value is only useful against lower tiered aircraft.  Equal and higher tier aircraft still take out a large chunk of health in the blink of an eye.  Even the upgraded Il-40 tailgunner poses a threat to this aircraft because of the damage values on it.
Adjustment Recommendations - grant this plane the ability to equip the accuracy module since it currently can't equip it, or increase the accuracy of the 57mm some.  Without either or both, the Il-20 has no reason to use the 57mm cannons at all except for lucky shots on small target profiles or to just strafe the HQ, which is a pointless endevour since the guns overheat before a single pass is completed on that.  I would prefer to see the 57mm stay because I think they provide an interesting dynamic to both this plane and the battles when they are used.
Also increase durability resistance to calibers.  The HP count is fine.  But when even a single tier X 23mm can pose a threat to what is "supposed" to be currently the most armored tier VIII, something isn't quite balanced with this aircraft.
Bomb fuse suggestion still stands.  There is no reason to use the 500kg because the risk of suicide is too great still.  Traveling below 300mph at low altitude puts the plane at risk of borderline area damage.  Traveling below 280mph puts the plane in range where the whole crew gets shaken and the plane temporarily loses control.  Any slower and the plane will be in the lethal blast radius.  This wouldn't be a problem if holding boost at near level AoA still resulted in a speed loss at roughly 1.5~2mph per second and 334mph weren't the borderline yellow speed.
So there's no reason to get the biggest guns, and no reason to get the biggest bombs.  Upgrade to middle range and then farm exp for the Il-40.  That is, unless changes are made to this plane.

Edited by bearrick, 26 August 2013 - 10:17 PM.

401shield.png 401st Bomb Group STICKER US ARMY AIR CORPS 615th Bomb Squadron.jpg 615th Bombardment Squadron


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SkyWolf__WM #4 Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:15 AM

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it's a nerfed piece of junk

Edited by SkyWolf__WM, 01 October 2013 - 04:14 AM.

***************Fail to Suck****************

I shall use my aircraft and my skill to slightly inconvenience mine enemies.


Traurig_Yoda #5 Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:20 PM

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since 0.5.1 the tail gunner is like super shooter, never misses and does an amazing amount of damage on a ridiculous scale, this must be a dev joke or something.

Heh #6 Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:32 PM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 27 August 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

since 0.5.1 the tail gunner is like super shooter, never misses and does an amazing amount of damage on a ridiculous scale, this must be a dev joke or something.

Only since 0.5.1? It has always been the case.
Heh - aeromarine biologist

View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

bearrick #7 Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:09 PM

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View PostHeh, on 28 August 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

Only since 0.5.1? It has always been the case.

The second level skills made him even better.

401shield.png 401st Bomb Group STICKER US ARMY AIR CORPS 615th Bomb Squadron.jpg 615th Bombardment Squadron


"What kind of a war is this?" - 2nd Lt. Ken Powell



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Heh #8 Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:04 PM

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View Postbearrick, on 28 August 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

The second level skills made him even better.

Posted Image
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View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

_Lindy_ #9 Posted 28 August 2013 - 07:16 PM

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View PostTraurig_Yoda, on 27 August 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

since 0.5.1 the tail gunner is like super shooter, never misses and does an amazing amount of damage on a ridiculous scale, this must be a dev joke or something.

Yerp gotta agree, has more firepower than most forward firing guns

datum perficiemus munus

 

 


_SuperGrover_ #10 Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:59 AM

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I have trouble grinding credits with this aircraft for some reason. I always seem too loose credits each battle. Is this common knowledge? I've got 75 battles since open beta and probably a couple hundred from closed.

Here's one recent example: 2 aircraft destroyed and 4 ground targets. not a bad contribution on my part, so why should I loose credits??

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OhanaUnited #11 Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:46 AM

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View Postasphincter, on 29 August 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

I have trouble grinding credits with this aircraft for some reason. I always seem too loose credits each battle. Is this common knowledge? I've got 75 battles since open beta and probably a couple hundred from closed.

Here's one recent example: 2 aircraft destroyed and 4 ground targets. not a bad contribution on my part, so why should I loose credits??
4 GT is rather low when its guns (fully upgraded) can easily take out 1 to 2 GT before seeing any enemies during round start.

Heh #12 Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:44 AM

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View PostOhanaUnited, on 29 August 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

4 GT is rather low when its guns (fully upgraded) can easily take out 1 to 2 GT before seeing any enemies during round start.

Especially considering you have access to THE HIGHEST damage per hit values in-game, meaning you 5-6 shot ground targets. A "normal" match in an adult whale is 7-9 ground targets.
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View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O

UraniumOverdose #13 Posted 30 August 2013 - 11:36 PM

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Plane is fine, the rear turret needs to be toned down, I would rather fly over enemy AA for the whole game, then get behind an IL 20.

Cut my life into pizzas, this is my plastic fork.

 


JDMFreakz #14 Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:22 AM

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its tailgunner make this AC really OP to lower tiers..

otherwise its fun

 


comealong1 #15 Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:27 PM

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This plane is too costly to fly!!.....Know my ground pounding, but this has gotten crazy....Plane too slow like dead weight crap....And to limit rear gunner is nuts....Nobody will give cover to this plane....Needs some defenses...I was answered "IL stupids dog" after asking for cover on my bomb run...HMmmm


  Don't think this plane should ever encounter a jet in battles, either....Been mismatched many times too on very small battles....1 on 1 with higher fighters, like i had a chance..lol.....5 targets just to break even is too much....Average in battles only bout 3....Many pos I guess  I've done at times on pure luck....Jet fighter guys complain every time they have a hard time destroying another type of plane...Kinda a joke really, I think.


  I had to go fly my tier 3 to finance airframe for IL-20...Now for ammo....Then broke again....Over 5500 flights with most but not all these planes, says too costly a plane....I had so many ground pounders awards that I should be over a hundred....5.2 update wiped alot of them....Should be rich in this game!!!
Caused much ground damage!


  Why fly attack aircraft if not more rewarding???!!....Get killed more, get killed quicker, & broke at the end???!!!...Planes slow & not so exciting either...I've come up thru the IL line up too....Skreatch.....I redid the IL line so as to try the IL-8...Did the IL-10 first time up......IL-20 bankrupted me big time....High cost of engine or other upgrades is one thing, but stopping finantial growth??......Expence so high so sould the rewards be..


  I think these battles need a plan or a leader...Missions to complete maybe....Think should be more than a bomb run & a flying circus in the middle(with guns)


  Ca1

comealong1 #16 Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:20 PM

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At 6 planes or less per side shouldnt kills be worth more??.....When jets & fast movers are round ground targets should be worth more too...Odds on this whale of a plane are sucky to say the best!!....I had to fly my I-15 & use up my tokens just to upgrade my rear gunner...Still very little cover or help when on bomb runs....Average targets killed is still between 3 & 5....Kill of 1 plane & 5 ground targets is still going backwards....That's down right screwed up!!.....Must say loosing interest fast since 5.2 update....One thing for the other players to fight me, but I'm not going to play a game that the game itself fights me too...I've played battle games & used to fighting with others...Don't know why exactly but this game seems down right hostile to me & I don't mean the air battles.
  Must be able to progress or not worth playing, RIGHT....Had no doubt of buying premium til now either....Very shaky now indeed on that....If going to have ground targets, then must make it more wortth while to destroy them....Seen many others in IL's with no bombs or rockets trying to dogfight....That is saying something right there!!?
  If in real war if bomb run is not comepleted, does the fighter dogfight matter??!...OH, missed Berlin, DA....Try again with cover, maybe?...But I'm a " IL stupid dog"....A biggest bully game we really don't need either!!!
  Ca1
   And the point of the rear gunner is that you are supposed to attack from the side...Not the front or the back!....Hot ammo is great too with rear gunner...Seems front & back are the same....Airbrakes & flaps can be very helpful in fights to turn faster or climb & turn...When going for ground targets must give rear gunner clear shot at any planes behind...I've learn to use these attack planes well I think & can be a lot of fun!

Edited by comealong1, 12 September 2013 - 07:06 PM.


comealong1 #17 Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:16 AM

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The IL-10, & IL-20 drop 2 & 3% on the IL-2 ....Played enough with each to compare performence in my stats....I think IL-20 needs a lil more speed...Shy of 500, but higher than now...My guess about 480mph be right on.
  My crew is now working on their 3rd skill....Crack shot & Sharp shooter 60% each...love messing with the guys that follow or attack me...Learned to turn fast  use my rear gunner too, as well as the large cannon of a forward gun.
  Keep this plane worth while to play & not too costly and it will be great!!
  Ca1

Edited by comealong1, 15 September 2013 - 10:38 PM.


comealong1 #18 Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:36 PM

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Since 5.3 update, my IL-20 totally sucks...Had expert Pilot & rear(long range marksmen)...Now cant hit a mountain....Want big rockets back too.....57mm heats too quickly now...The changes to 57mm & rear gunner need be split in half, plus rockets back to make this plane bout right!!!...And still think just lil touch faster too..


   I have over 1400 IL-20 flights....Part of why some have had a hard time shooting me down & still not easy!!!


   Ca1

bearrick #19 Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:54 PM

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View Postcomealong1, on 30 September 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

Since 5.3 update, my IL-20 totally sucks...Had expert Pilot & rear(long range marksmen)...Now cant hit a mountain....Want big rockets back too.....57mm heats too quickly now...The changes to 57mm & rear gunner need be split in half, plus rockets back to make this plane bout right!!!...And still think just lil touch faster too..


   I have over 1400 IL-20 flights....Part of why some have had a hard time shooting me down & still not easy!!!


   Ca1

I have to agree with this.

As of 0.5.3, the 57mm are only just marginally better than the upgraded 23mm when the overheat index is factored in.  Even though each shot does more damage, because they overheat so fast, the two weapon modules are similar enough that there is no longer any justifiable reason to research the big cannons unless you just want the wow factor of 1-2 shotting planes.

I can't tell if there was a major change in accuracy or if it's just the known issue with auto-aim, but it's not helping to deal more damage before the guns overheat.

The new rockets aren't an improvement even though there are now 4 more of them.
The ROFS-132 on the Il-10 do 1200.  1200 x 8 = 9600
The TRS-82 on the Il-20 do 850.  850 x 12 = 10200
Total damage is more, but a difference of 600 extra damage divided across 4 more rockets isn't much to write home about when considering that it looks like ground targets were retiered for battles and so the Il-20 is now more likely to face the toughest targets it can.  This also doesn't help much in terms of balancing the overheat on the 57mm guns.

If the goal across the board was to make GAs more ordinance dependent, job well done and mission accomplished.
But I'm of the opinion that this is hurting the class.
Ordinance is always limited.  Extremely limited in some cases.  Bullets, on the other hand, are only theoretically limited by the overheat index.  Making them more ordinance dependent means they loss even more effectiveness when ordinance is expended than they did in previous builds.

401shield.png 401st Bomb Group STICKER US ARMY AIR CORPS 615th Bomb Squadron.jpg 615th Bombardment Squadron


"What kind of a war is this?" - 2nd Lt. Ken Powell



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Heh #20 Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

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View Postbearrick, on 30 September 2013 - 10:54 PM, said:

I have to agree with this.

As of 0.5.3, the 57mm are only just marginally better than the upgraded 23mm when the overheat index is factored in.  Even though each shot does more damage, because they overheat so fast, the two weapon modules are similar enough that there is no longer any justifiable reason to research the big cannons unless you just want the wow factor of 1-2 shotting planes.

I can't tell if there was a major change in accuracy or if it's just the known issue with auto-aim, but it's not helping to deal more damage before the guns overheat.

The new rockets aren't an improvement even though there are now 4 more of them.
The ROFS-132 on the Il-10 do 1200.  1200 x 8 = 9600
The TRS-82 on the Il-20 do 850.  850 x 12 = 10200
Total damage is more, but a difference of 600 extra damage divided across 4 more rockets isn't much to write home about when considering that it looks like ground targets were retiered for battles and so the Il-20 is now more likely to face the toughest targets it can.  This also doesn't help much in terms of balancing the overheat on the 57mm guns.

If the goal across the board was to make GAs more ordinance dependent, job well done and mission accomplished.
But I'm of the opinion that this is hurting the class.
Ordinance is always limited.  Extremely limited in some cases.  Bullets, on the other hand, are only theoretically limited by the overheat index.  Making them more ordinance dependent means they loss even more effectiveness when ordinance is expended than they did in previous builds.

>sky whale teeth now overheat fast

NOW can we make the sky whale gun spread actually manageable? Because if the overheat is going to stay like this, do not bring up those stupid extra dispersion on top of the already natural bad dispersion we have in-game.
Heh - aeromarine biologist

View Posthahiha, on , said:


OMG Heh you have had so many posts O_O




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